[20:45] Welcome to Digital Health WG Meeting, August!For help on using BigBlueButton see these (short) tutorial videos.To join the audio bridge click the phone button. Use a headset to avoid causing background noise for others.This server is running BigBlueButton. [20:51] Nandini: Hi I cannot hear the audio. Though the mike works [20:51] Abbas: you cannot hear us? [20:52] Nandini: I can hear you [20:52] Nandini: but you cannot hear me? [21:02] Nandini: :) [21:03] Gargeya Telakapalli: ya ya [21:03] Gargeya Telakapalli: we can wait [21:04] Abbas: hi susana [21:04] Nandini: Hi Chee Han you are in audio only mode. [21:04] Nandini: do you want to enable your mike? [21:06] Sulakshana: Hi everyone [21:06] Abbas: hello! [21:06] Peter (PHM South Africa): Hello to you all from South Africa [21:06] Junho Jung: hi we will begin in 1 min [21:09] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): Thank you Junho. I will share some suggestions on the google docs today. It's getting really great [21:10] Sulakshana: Can we get some more time to add to the mapping? Is there a deadline that we had decided? Sorry, haven't been able to see it till now. [21:17] Junho Jung: thanks matheus, thanks sulakshana. i guess we can take more time to develop it, hopefully complete it in august. [21:19] Sulakshana: thanks Junho, much appreciated [21:48] Gargeya Telakapalli: thank you. good presentation. didnt understand some parts. will go through the ppt. [21:50] Sulakshana: Thanks Nandini for such an interesting and clear presentation. Much to think about [21:50] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): Thank you Nandini! That was really great and helpful [21:51] Gargeya Telakapalli: what is a data cooperative. maybe an example? [21:53] Susana: thanks nandini, that helps [21:58] Sulakshana: Thanks Nandini that would be a very useful exercise. I can contribute to adding the health part. I think the more specific we are, more useful it would be for us [22:01] Chee Han (TWN): is it just me, i didn't hear anything? is anyone speaking? [22:02] Sulakshana: Junho is speaking. I can hear [22:02] Abbas: junho is speaking, but his voice is low [22:02] Sulakshana: In India our national health insurance data is only shared with world bank and gates foundation!! Public has no access, even to aggregated data [22:04] Nandini: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13347-018-0320-8 [22:04] Nandini: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Data_Integrity_Notice.cfm?abid=2750347 [22:06] Nandini: These are some studies on data cooperatives [22:06] Gargeya Telakapalli: thank you [22:07] Gargeya Telakapalli: seen pharma companies track the data of patients groups they support. sometimes done as csr work etc. [22:07] Nandini: yes, this kind of cooperative washing is a problem [22:08] Nandini: very common in data stewardship experiments :) [22:08] Sulakshana: Yes, we should put down principles on role of govt. Though I also think that govt should have an ultimate responsibility, especially when we speak in a rights based framework. We need to keep discussing and exchanging our views on these issues [22:08] Gargeya Telakapalli: ok [22:08] Nandini: noted, sulakshana. [22:09] Abbas: Nandini's second link is this paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29086656/ [22:09] Gargeya Telakapalli: to add to Matheus. in some countries like India. even basic conflict of interest is not seen in the partnerships that the government does. [22:11] Gargeya Telakapalli: competition law/governance is a bit far in that sense [22:11] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): Indeed. [22:14] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): I was wondering if we could approach this issue as well from the side of institutional governance. I don't know if it's just here, all the main bodies of governance on digital health and data have a lot of influence from companies, especially pharmaceutical retailers and private insurance companies. It happens both with participation on bodies and technical advise [22:14] Susana: This is the reference that provides principles of what public quality service alternatives are: Alternatives to Privatization: Public Options for Essential Services in the Global South, https://www.municipalservicesproject.org/publication/alternatives-privatization-public-options-essential-services-global-south. [22:15] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): advice* [22:16] Chee Han: may i say something? [22:16] Gargeya Telakapalli: I think Elias connected to the wrong audio [22:17] Gargeya Telakapalli: I mean. it only shows headphone. no mic. [22:17] Elias Kondilis: Hi there. I am here listening. No comment from my side. [22:17] Junho Jung: ok [22:20] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): good point. I think there is a lot written on that from the perspective of market failures. Information assimetry. I wonder if this is a good approach for the need of regulation. [22:23] Elias Kondilis: the need of regulation from a market failure perspective narrows significantly the scope of regulation. Regulation is necessary not just to correct market failures but also to steer the behaviour of individuals and organisations towards important social goals such as equity [22:24] Susana: i agree with Elias. while we do want to highlight market failures to argue for the need for regulation, it is not a good starting point for thinking regulation itself [22:25] Gargeya Telakapalli: can the chat be saved? [22:26] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): yes, agree with you both. It would be one of the points. [22:26] Abbas: The email list is digital-health-wg@justnetcoalition.org [22:26] Gargeya Telakapalli: sorry. it can be. saw it now. [22:26] Nandini: i can share our draft paper and the PPT [22:28] Nandini: Thanks everyone. It was great to learn about health data developments in Korea, Malaysia and Brazil and also learn from the conceptual reflections on strengthening semicommons frameworks [22:29] Sulakshana: Thanks all, take care [22:29] Marcelo Fornazin (Fiocruz Brazil): Thank you! [22:29] Susana: thanks a lot Nandini, and everyone for a great discussion. and juhoo too! [22:29] Abbas: thanks :) [22:29] Chee Han: thank you! [22:29] Chee Han: bye [22:29] Gargeya Telakapalli: thankyou. bye. [22:29] Chee Han: see you again [22:29] Matheus Falcão (Brazil): Thank you all and especially Nandini [22:29] Elias Kondilis: Thanks, bye [22:29] Nandini: Bye.